There seems to be rumours of a takeover in the offing. Talk of Paul Caddick and Robert Elstone. Has anybody heard anything more concrete? Elstone was in the railway end at start of the Catalans game last week.

Both their yesterday apparently

Never seen Caddick there myself bit then I don’t go in the main stand, where is expect him to be smoozed. The rhinos have just said goodbye to a long time director. So maybe things over there are coming to an end

The rumour(s) appear to be growing but just like the stadium, I’ll believe it when I see it. Whatever may be forthcoming, there’s a sizeable loan to the Fulton’s that needs paying off so it may be a case of IF realising the only realistic way to ever achieve payback is to let someone else invest and rebuild the Club. Here’s hoping so…

I think it’s clear that Ian Fulton doesn’t want to invest or take the club any further so having some new owners come in if they’re willing to help improve the club both on and off the field can’t be a bad thing. I said not so long ago that we failed pretty spectacularly when it came to building on the 2017 season. For the first time in probably decades we had players wanting to come and be a part of the culture and team and we really should have taken that moment when it was there. Just as in any other business the BOD have to take the blame, we failed to bring in a suitable replacement for Powell, allowed multiple retirement fund players to sign for the club and then we gave the head coach role to someone who has pretty much been the under study to Radford. I’d really like it if someone came in with a proper vision and communicated with the fans on a more regular basis. If we need to make some cuts in order to survive say so, give us a long term vision for the club and what’s actually happening as the way it currently stands we hear nothing. RL isn’t some cash rich sport and if Ian Fulton is basically holding back the club due to loans he has invested or what ever it might be then alternatives need to be found. Fan confidence is at an all time low, team moral is just as bad and we’re heading down the same path as we did in 2004 - this time though the championship is a lot stronger and there’s no guarantee we’d come straight back up, especially with the whole IMG side of things too.

Matt Really sensible view Matt, I have said many times leadership is a specific skill and setting out a vision about the club, experience, the planning off the field. Reserves and womens teams and finally the first 13 is vital. Lets get an identity and something we can get behind for the longer term - because when you’re in this hand to mouth situation, everything feels like a must win and you’re in a binary situation. It is crystal clear that something has to change I am afraid. I don’t know a lot about the individuals involved so will not indulge in hyperbole.

After a good 2017 all of a sudden we have a team with current internationals in it. Gale, mcmeeken, then adz and oggy got a call up. We suddenly have to find more money to keep them which meant we couldn’t recruit properly. We have to be honest about our clubs limitations and it’s ceiling. I really believe that 2017 was it. We might get to the challenge cup final but the same teams win it each year. Every now and again a team pops up and flukes it. It’s the same with the league, it’s the same teams but occasionally one gets it right but you either have a strong 1- 17 or a mediocre squad, you can’t have both. Then you need very few injuries. A bit of luck doesn’t go amiss either. Then there’s the things that are out of the ordinary, hardaker comes to mind obviously. Our aim is to be a regular playoff team that doesn’t flirt with relegation, with the odd cup final and maybe a win every 15 - 20 years. It’s been like that since I started watching Cas in the 70s. Every club needs an owner with deep pockets because there’s little money to be made if any at all. We aren’t a trophy asset, no team in the sport in the northern hemisphere is. I don’t believe we could get a regular crowd of 10k so we have to maximise what we have. If we couldn’t do it in 2017, pre Brexit and pandemic, we can’t.

One of the hardest things I’ve found running businesses is attracting new investors,even when the model is profitable. No such sureties in Rugby League,I wouldn’t think any investor savvy enough to make money in the first place would realistically expect a return. Ian Fulton has been roundly criticised for loaning the club money at rates a couple of percent above the banks base rate,truth is if the banks won’t lend you money that’s the price you pay,I have business loans from private investors and everyone is 2% above the base rate. Jack Fultons heart was in Cas, Ian Fulton is first and foremost a businessman his loyalties lay elsewhere. I sincerely hope he’s a good businessman and the current lack of investment and trimming of the squad to reduce the outgoings is an excercise in making investing in the club look more appealing rather than something more sinister.

Your very much right. Looking for profit in a sports team is hard but not impossible. The thing is to get in at the right time and out at the right time. Take Manchester United as an example. The glazers could see that the game was only only to get bigger and that meant more broadcasting money. So they mortgaged old Trafford to buy the club and then used the income to pay the interest. They then bought players with the broadcasting money and pocketed good dividends. They are now selling with the debt still as big as ever and looking at a minimum 3bn profit. They haven’t updated the ground and done minimal to the training ground. They are selling for someone to buy a trophy asset. Same at Chelsea but the Russian didn’t his own money but his country’s stolen money and if it hasn’t have been for the Ukrainian war he’d have made over a billion. So which rugby League club is worth something. Well one is Cas but it would be a specific owner. We are building a new ground and so let’s say we get the 12.2m and we’ve still got the 2m council money. If a builder can build it cheaper than 14 2m and so pay the staff is all profit. The bigger the builder, the more savings on buying bulk materials for more than one job, same with machinery and you’ve staff not waiting for the next job on a payroll. Caddick built headingley up and Yorkshire cricket have a large mortgage on their joint stand. I’m sure the rhinos have their build incorporated into the full cost. So it might make financial sense to a builder

I’m assuming if Wheldon Road is to be redeveloped the work will be put out to tender and the winning builder/developer,who will have their profit margin factored in to the quote will do the job. At this point,business wise,they should saddle up their horse,stick the money in the saddlebag and ride off into the sunset. I think the game as a whole is in trouble,if Saints can win a grand final,and a challenge cup in the same season and see their losses increase,and every Super League team is operating at a loss something has got to give. The sugar daddies are keeping the game afloat,without them we’re stuffed. Investing in a team like Man Utd,turnover circa 640 million,I get,the Glazers first and foremost are shrewd,they financed their way to a small fortune and leave behind a club mired in debt. Would the same model work at Cas,turnover 6 million,loans outstanding….I think not. Sadly investing in Cas would have to be done for love not money. As a business owner would I do it,absolutely not. Personally if I had the liquidity…like a bloody shot lol. And if we were to attempt the Salford model and go for a fan owned entity, I’d be writing a cheque.

https://castlefordtigers.com/article.php?id=8615

Takeover talk

RaoulDuke

Hepworth you wonder why people want to buy these things at the times they do. A wakey fan wouldn’t wait until his team was relegated to want to help. Saving them in the.off season prior would have given them time to build and survive.

My take is that it’s cheaper now as the owners are desperate to get rid and the price will be lower due to their potential relegation. If he gets them promoted, which he should do as there’s no big spenders left in that league, he can get the fans behind them and he becomes a fantastic owner. There might be profit in a sale once promoted.

Looking at the Cas takeover, someone in a Rolls Royce was apparently been given the tour of our stadium yesterday. If that didn’t scare them off then they might be true fans. Here’s hoping!

FlatCapper

It seems the Wakey deal does not require any repayment of loans to private individuals which is both interesting and a very tempting offer from those owed monies.

Can’t see IF doing the same..?

pirate

FlatCapper
Wakey still have that 3 million quid loan from WMDC to repay though, This was the loan to buy back Belle vue , not the 2 mil that all 3 clubs got.
If it transpires that the council have written that off then there needs to be some questions answered by WMDC.
They (WMDC) have form for saving trinity at council tax payers expense
Interesting times

RaoulDuke

pirate I was under the impression that they were only paying back the interest into a set date and then would start full repayments. If it’s written off, can we have our 3+ million please?

TheFirm

RaoulDuke Their full loan repayment becomes active either once the new stand is up and running or after 5 years (May 2024), whichever is sooner. Up until now they have only been paying the low government backed interest payments, from (likely) September the whole thing kicks in and payment will be in excess of 20k a month for 15 years.

Also worth noting that they have had to borrow extra funds to finish the build off as price rises have drained the fixed cash sum from yorkcourt and the council dry. This is something we will likely have to bear in mind if & when our own build becomes a thing.

RaoulDuke

TheFirm when the GMI bloke gave a talk at last years meet the directors, he said that they would pay the full build cost and we just have to stump up the 2m we got from the council.

As they will be building at the Axiom site, they can bulk buy and get discounts. Wakey was the only build and they had to reduce their build. The birth staff is only half done. Ask that work and only 1.5 stand updated.

pirate

TheFirm

TheFirm Up until now they have only been paying the low government backed interest payments, from (likely) September the whole thing kicks in and payment will be in excess of 20k a month for 15 years.

Whoever planned this wants locking up, they could have signed wakeys death warrant.
They should have paid rent to share with Fev or god forbid us for this season and timed the build to be completed for the start of next season, at least they would have some money coming in, unlike the september daedline when they have one month income from games.
How the hell will they pay this debt with no income?
I wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt scare the interested parties away from Trinity.
Glad its them and not us ……………………………………… yet

RaoulDuke

RaoulDuke
The north stand is only half done. All that work and only 1.5 stands updated.

TheFirm

RaoulDuke They’ve actually made the North Stand smaller and reduced the capacity. They couldn’t build it right to the back anymore due to the lack of height of the roof. A Wakey supporting colleague of mine says it’s killed the atmosphere in there.

pirate

TheFirm
They had an atmosphere?
did they borrow it from the council?

RaoulDuke

pirate they reckon the pitch and new stand will earn then 500k a year.

pirate

RaoulDuke
yeo I heard Carter say that, but Carter is a seller and he wouldnt say anything else would he.
I have also seen that the kitchen fitter that is buying trinity has agreed to pay all debts including the 3 million to WMDC.
It all sounds a bit West Yorkshire Windows reborn to me,
Good luck to them though, Next season obviously
At least things are moving on for them,
Us? we seem to copy the Leeds United route of making everything almost impossible for ourselves.
Supporting Cas and being a LUFC fan is an accident of birth and i sometimes wonder if i was a real B*****d in a previous life.
CTID

Hepworth

pirate Hopefully some good news for you on the LUFC front Pirate, Leeds 49′ers has a certain ring to it. Shame they don’t want a rugby team.

RaoulDuke

pirate like you I support both. The only way is up!

The new owner at wakey is now in charge of recruitment. Are kitchen salesman good with rugby player recruitment? If so, how good are builders, Caddick bright in hetherington to do his and hes won a few things (in the past but they still make finals)

Hepworth

Caddick no doubt would give us decent foundations but I I expect the kitchen blokes got a decent handle on it.[😳]

pirate

Has this takeover died a death or are the club playing their cards close to their chests?

yorky

i would imagine if anyone wanted the club they would be waiting for the planning permission to be granted before making a move, but i doubt anyone wants our toxic club

FlatCapper

If you’re looking to buy a Club, I’m not sure the current administration would be a worry as you’d probably be looking to bring in people you trust and know their capabilities.

You could of course, wait until the Club is relegated to make them a cheaper purchase but you then have to acknowledge the need for increased investment post-procurement. Swings and roundabouts.

Planning approval will be vital for either scenario…

pirate

FlatCapper
Or maybe the incumbants are waiting for planning to up the price and b*****ks to superleague survival

CurtisTigers

pirate

But surely the counter argument to that is that a SL club is a more attractive proposition than and championship club so would fetch a higher sale price for those looking to sell. If they want to maximise their profits surely they want to sell a club with SL status?

Matt

CurtisTigers

Lack of TV coverage would surely play a big part too. Without that sponsors only have the eyes of people attending the match which will also be lower due to smaller clubs visiting.

On top of uncertainty if the club would return it’s not a great purchase.

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